Original Title: "Xiao Feng's Hong Kong Dialogue with Vitalik: Remembering the Journey to China 10 Years Ago, Tips for Learning Chinese, Ethereum's Future and Hong Kong's Role"

Original Source: Wu Said Blockchain

At the Hong Kong Web3 Carnival ETHAsia 2025 event, Wanxiang Blockchain's Chairman Xiao Feng engaged in a deep conversation with Ethereum's founder Vitalik, reflecting on their first visit to China in 2014. Vitalik emphasized the significant role of Chinese miners, exchanges, and developers in Ethereum's early development, shared his experience learning Chinese, and acknowledged the rapid progress of the Chinese community in technologies such as ZK and AI.

Regarding application development, Vitalik stated that the Foundation's role is to empower rather than dominate, hoping that local communities will spontaneously drive progress. The current focus should be on DeFi, RWA, decentralized social, and other specific directions, rather than a generic discussion of "applications." He called for Chinese teams to participate in Ethereum POS 2.0 (Beam Chain) and other foundational research to drive protocol evolution. Addressing the "impossible triangle," Vitalik believed that a layered architecture has already overcome about 70% of technical barriers. In the future, leveraging account abstraction, ZK technology, L1-L2 data sharing, etc., could lead to achieving a "WeChat-level" Web3 application experience. He proposed that by sinking service logic to L1, the development threshold for L2 could be significantly reduced, and L2 should pay fees for the basic services provided by L1 to achieve value flowback.

Regarding the scope of "decentralization vs. centralization," Vitalik emphasized that the real world, such as RWA and identity systems, requires some trust mechanisms. Blockchain should reduce trust costs through cryptography and ZK, rather than pursuing extreme decentralization, to improve fairness and efficiency. In terms of the global ecosystem, both parties agreed that developers from China and the US constitute two major core forces. Vitalik pointed out that Foundation resources are limited, mainly focusing on infrastructure development and educational support, while commercial applications should be community-driven. Finally, Xiao Feng suggested establishing an office in Hong Kong for the Foundation, restarting hackathons and workshops in mainland China. Vitalik responded positively and expressed gratitude for the support and contributions from the Chinese community over the years.

The audio transcript was completed by GPT and may contain errors. Please listen to the full podcast:

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Xiao Feng and Vitalik Recall Their First Visit to China, China Community Support for Ethereum Development

Xiao Feng: Thank you, everyone. I want to start by sharing a secret that the year 2025 marks the tenth anniversary of my acquaintance with Vitalik. In 2015, we first met in Shanghai, so it's quite nostalgic for both of us to be having this conversation again. Of course, some of the nostalgia is of a personal nature, which we won't delve into in public. In 2015, Vitalik should have stayed in Shanghai for almost three months. Although he had visited many times before, this three-month period was probably the longest.

So I'm particularly interested to know your impression of China, Shanghai, the Ethereum community in China, or Chinese Ethereum developers from that time to the present. This is a question that many Chinese developers are very eager to understand.

Vitalik: Yes, I remember my first visit to China was in 2014. I traveled from Xi'an to Beijing, then went to Shanghai, Hangzhou, Shenzhen, and visited several other places. At that time, I could feel that China already had many companies, teams, developers, and brands doing various things. I remember visiting exchanges like OKCoin and Huobi, where I found that they had more employees than the largest exchanges in the United States. And there were many Bitcoin miners, as it was the transition period from FPGA to ASIC, around 2013 to 2014.

I remember one time in Shenzhen, I saw a particularly large mining farm in the suburbs with a large number of mining rigs. At that time, I already felt that China's hash power was very strong, and various teams were actively promoting the development of Bitcoin and blockchain.

Back then, I noticed that these teams, projects, and companies in China were very large, but almost no one outside China knew about their existence, with zero recognition. At that time internationally, basically everyone only knew about Ethereum and miners, but China's ecosystem was already doing many more profound things.

I remember in 2015, you and some other companies had already started doing some very interesting things. Starting from 2015, the Chinese community had made many early important contributions to Ethereum's development. I'm truly grateful for your support so early on.

I also remember that you purchased a lot of tokens from the Ethereum Foundation. At that time, the Foundation really needed that money to survive. It can be said that they survived thanks to that funding. Later, I also sensed that the Chinese community became increasingly complex and diverse, with everyone starting to exert efforts in many different directions, such as protocol research, cryptography research, and formula algorithm research.

One could say that back in 2015, besides Israel and San Francisco, there weren't really any particularly interesting blockchain projects elsewhere. But by 2016, I remember you had undertaken many projects, and now we can see many excellent research teams working on Zero-Knowledge Proofs (ZK), AI, and other directions, all of which indicate that the community's quality has become very high.

How Vitalik Learned Chinese in One Year and Gave a Speech in Chinese

Xiao Feng: The day before yesterday, I told Vitalik that our conversation would be in Chinese, hahaha. I just remembered early 2015 when we were together, he didn't speak a word of Chinese at that time. But one day he told me he was going to start learning Chinese. A year later, around August 2016, we, in that September, organized a "Blockchain Week" in Shanghai at Wanxiang Blockchain, and he was our main guest.

In August, I contacted him in advance and said, if you have a PowerPoint presentation, please send it to me first. I can have someone translate it into bilingual Chinese and English to help attendees better understand. But he told me, no need. He would write the PowerPoint in Chinese and deliver the speech in Chinese. It took only a year, and I'm really curious. How did you manage to not only learn to speak Chinese in such a short time but also to write a speech in Chinese? This is actually much harder than just being able to speak.

Of course, I also recall May 2016 when we went to New York, San Francisco, and London together. I remember in a taxi in New York, Vitalik, me, and Shen Bo from distributed capital were chatting. When Shen Bo and I were discussing something in Chinese, we hadn't finished, and Vitalik took out his phone and asked me, "Was the word you just said this one?" That's how he learned Chinese, bit by bit. But I'd still like to hear how you managed to learn Chinese so quickly?

Vitalik: My method of learning a new language is something I've tried many times. My first step is usually to use an audio course called Pimsleur, which comes in many language versions. Each course has 90 episodes, and each episode is 30 minutes long. They start teaching from the basics, like the first lesson is "Hello," "I am in the United States," "I am in China," and each lesson's content gradually becomes more complex.

The course involves listening repeatedly, repeating after, and answering questions. Throughout the process, you keep speaking and repeating continuously to gradually master basic expressions.

Later, I added the "recognition of characters" part because in Chinese, you not only need to speak but also understand the concept of Chinese characters, which is a bit more complicated than many other languages. At that time, I used a flashcard-like app to learn 20 characters a day, and the system would repeatedly test you on whether you remembered the meanings and pronunciations of these characters. Practicing continually in this way, I gradually accumulated knowledge.

The next truly effective way of learning is through — — interaction with people. Whether through voice or chat applications, make sure to speak and write as much as possible whenever the opportunity arises. I remember when traveling in some cities in China, I would deliberately look at the street signs of every street because they displayed both Chinese characters and Pinyin. Through this continuous accumulation in daily scenarios, I would learn something new every day.

Probably one or two years later, the most important thing is to immerse yourself in a fully Chinese language environment so that you can continuously understand more content and practice more expressions. Being in this environment every day, you naturally become more proficient over time.

How to view Chinese developers' contribution and sentiment towards Ethereum?

Xiao Feng: I remember in January 2016, Wanxiang Blockchain and Deloitte jointly held the first Ethereum hackathon in Shanghai. At that time, over 100 people from around the world flew in to attend, with the majority being Chinese who came from Beijing or southwestern China. There were also some international participants, such as a high school student from Italy who flew to Shanghai specifically to participate. He came alone, and we improvised a team for him on-site, and their team ended up winning the first prize.

Later, this high school student approached our Wanxiang Blockchain team, asking if he could join us. He said he didn't plan to go back to Italy. At that time, we advised him to at least finish high school and consider the future after entering college. As a result, a year later, he returned to Europe to participate in a project called LTA and later became a key technical member of that project.

Telling this story is to say: China's developer community has made significant contributions since 2015, 2016, and 2017 in Ethereum's community building, technical development, and market promotion, and they also have a deep affection for Ethereum. This is not just a technical input but more of a profound love.

I remember in 2016, when you gave a speech at Wanxiang Blockchain's forum, the reception you received made you seem like a superstar, even more enthusiastic than the cheers you receive now. Therefore, next, on behalf of China's Ethereum community and Chinese developers, whether they are directly developing on Ethereum now or not, everyone is eager to hear some thoughts from you or the Ethereum Foundation.

How do you hope to support Chinese developers to help them better contribute to the Ethereum ecosystem, build the community, and develop applications?

Vitalik: Yeah, I think one very important point is that we have already addressed many of the information gap issues. In the past, communities in China, India, Latin America, and other places were unaware of many things, but now this situation has greatly improved.

For example, during my three days here, I met many community activists and organizers who have a deep understanding of topics such as account abstraction and consensus algorithms. This indicates that our information sharing is improving.

Additionally, we recently conducted a project called Deep Funding. This project was an open competition where anyone who could provide a good AI model to answer community questions would receive a reward. I saw a participant in another event last year who is now working on such a project. These connections are becoming more and more common, bringing many positive impacts.

As for what we need most now, it is actually more specific "applications." However, sometimes I don't like the term "applications" because it is too broad. For example, Facebook is also called an application, Tencent is also called an application. If Ethereum is only summarized as an "application," it is challenging to reflect the unique value of this industry.

I hope to see more in-depth advancement in some specific areas, such as DeFi (including real-world assets like RWA), decentralized social, information finance, etc. Not everyone working on a single application together, but distributed in different directions, each with twenty to thirty deeply committed individuals. This way, the community will be more interesting and more sustainable.

Currently, many teams are building communities, discussing topics, organizing events, and attracting developers to participate. These are all very encouraging activities. The Ethereum Foundation also has many local community support programs, such as the various activities you have seen these days, where we provide different forms of support—including funding, tools, platform resources, etc.

Our foundation's goal is not to control the Ethereum ecosystem but to promote its self-growth. The most ideal state for us is that today we do something, and in the future, we no longer need to do it because the ecosystem has become strong enough and autonomous enough.

Another important point is about L1 (Layer 1) development. In this regard, everyone can start on their own, without needing to know anyone specifically or requiring foundation approval. As long as there is passion and ability, you can directly participate.

We are currently working on addressing another issue, which is the definition and promotion of decentralized Layer 2 (L2) standards (stage 0, stage 1, stage 2). Many L2 projects claim to be decentralized, but the standards are not clear and are more of a marketing tactic. We hope to use a clear set of technical standards to determine if a network is truly a stage 2 decentralized network, based on meeting certain security requirements and technical specifications.

This approach can make the entire ecosystem fairer, making it easier for newcomers and small teams to participate.

The development of L1 follows the same philosophy. Currently, our researcher Justin Drake is advancing a project called Beam Chain, which can be seen as an attempt at Ethereum POS 2.0. Over the past decade, we have conducted a lot of research on POS (Proof of Stake), and now we have a deeper understanding of algorithms, post-quantum security, and game theory. We hope to consolidate these achievements into a new L1 experimental project, allowing global teams to participate.

There are already at least 7 candidate teams for Beam Chain, and I even know that teams from universities like Shanghai Jiao Tong University and some domestic universities are conducting related research. If anyone is interested in this direction, I strongly recommend you to pay attention and get involved.

One of the current challenges in L1 research is that if you don't know people in the relevant community, even if you are very technically competent, it is very difficult to participate. This is a problem we are particularly keen to solve. Therefore, the development of Beam Chain will be carried out in a completely open manner, attracting more new teams to participate in building from scratch, allowing the Ethereum base layer to evolve in the long term.

How Can Blockchain Break the "Impossible Triangle"? When Will a "WeChat-Level" Application Emerge?

Xiao Feng: Haha, yes, after you just finished speaking, I actually have three questions I'd like to discuss with you. The first question is, everyone knows about a theory called the "Impossible Triangle of Blockchain" — that is, decentralization, security, and performance cannot be achieved simultaneously. You can only focus on two of them while sacrificing the third. This is not just a problem of blockchain; many other systems, such as the exchange rate mechanism, also have similar logic, fundamentally a mathematical problem.

So, how can blockchain ensure decentralization and security while greatly improving performance and scalability? If efficiency and scalability cannot be achieved, then it cannot support large-scale applications. From the perspective of cost and user experience, it seems that solving this triangle dilemma on a flat plane is not feasible.

So, my personal view is that even today, I still believe that only the layered architecture proposed by Ethereum, namely the approach of L1 and L2, is the best solution to this "impossible triangle." You also mentioned the relationship between L1 and L2 just now.

But next, I'd like to ask from another perspective — how to solve the problem of "usability"? That is, to minimize the barrier to using this technology, to minimize costs, and to maximize the experience. Because only when it is truly user-friendly can a high-tech new product or service be adopted by a broader audience.

Our industry has always been asking one question: When will the blockchain space see a "killer application"? That is, an application with a large-scale user base. The premise of a large-scale application is inevitably higher performance, lower costs, and stronger scalability.

Just like how the computer system evolved from the initial DOS command-line operating system to a graphical interface, and then to mobile internet apps, gradually lowering the barrier to entry. If we were still using DOS command-line operations today, perhaps there wouldn't be billions of people using computers in the world. So, after Microsoft launched the graphical operating system, the user base expanded from millions to billions, and eventually, the popularization of mobile internet enabled operations with just a tap of a finger, reaching the scale of over 5 billion internet users globally today.

So the question I want to ask is: While our current layered architecture is good, the "ease of use" barrier is still too high. When will we see the "APP moment" for blockchain? That is, behind a complex Web3 system, can be accessed by ordinary users seamlessly through a super app, just like WeChat — no matter how complex the system is, users can use it with just a click of an icon.

When will this "WeChat-level" blockchain experience emerge? I think that will be the true turning point for the explosion of killer applications. What's your take?

Vitalik: Yes, I think it will take a lot more time to reach that moment. We are indeed making progress, but there are still some technical challenges yet to be fully addressed.

As I mentioned in my keynote speech this morning, Ethereum still faces scalability challenges. You may recall that in my 2015 speech, I mentioned that the development of blockchain faces four technical challenges: first is scalability, second is POS (Proof of Stake), third is privacy protection, and fourth is security.

Now, zero-knowledge proofs (ZK) are progressing rapidly, and scalability has shown significant improvement. The POS mechanism has been successfully launched, but there is still room for further optimization; in terms of security, we not only focus on the security of the protocol itself but also on the security of user accounts.

For example, the way users manage their on-chain assets has historically had two extreme options: one is fully self-custodial, storing private keys on a computer, phone, or even on paper, which is very decentralized but too complex and risky for the vast majority of people, even for myself.

The other way is to use centralized services, but this brings trust issues, as seen in prominent examples like Mt. Gox and the FTX incident.

So our current focus is on finding a better balance between the two. For example, we now have a series of solutions such as Multi-sig, Account Abstraction, ZK Email, all aimed at improving user experience and reducing security risks.

Going back to what you just mentioned as the "APP Moment," I think that starting from the four goals we set in 2015, we have now achieved about 50% to 70%. As long as we solve the remaining technical challenges, the applications will definitely come.

Why do I believe this? Because we have already seen some cases, such as Worldcoin now having 10 million users, institutions like Sony, Kraken, Deutsche Bank deploying L2 on Ethereum, and many countries such as Argentina, Turkey, and some regions in Southeast Asia having a large number of users using stablecoins, ETH, DeFi services.

All of this indicates that the infrastructure is almost ready. As long as we can overcome the final user experience bottleneck and developers are willing to invest, killer applications are entirely possible.

So I am still quite optimistic. We will eventually usher in that "APP Moment." OK.

How to make L2 lighter and easier to build: move the "dirty work" down to L1, L2 payment fees

Xiao Feng: You just mentioned that traditional large institutions like Deutsche Bank have also started building on Ethereum's Layer 2 (L2). We launched Hashtag Chain last December, which is an Ethereum-based L2. However, in the process of building HushKey Chain, I always had a feeling that compared to developing an APP, the cost of building an L2 chain is still very high.

For example, if you want to build an L2 from scratch, you may need 20 engineers and spend a whole year. You not only have to build the chain itself but also create a browser, wallet, development tools, and so on, far more than just "writing a chain." And during the operation of this chain, the annual technical operations cost alone could reach millions of dollars.

Of course, I understand that L2 cannot be as cheap, fast, and low-cost as a mobile APP. But if you think from the perspective of those who want to start an L2 project from scratch, the barrier is indeed too high. They need to recruit 20 professional developers and solve various integration and operation issues.

So now I have a "wild" idea: Can we push as much of this "dirty work" down to L1 as possible? In other words, have L1 provide more basic capabilities, making L2 itself lighter, thinner, and easier to develop. This way, we wouldn't need to invest as much manpower, time, and resources into building an L2 like HushKey. Do you think this is achievable? When could it be achieved?

Vitalik: Actually, we are already working on this. Let me give you some specific examples.

One major source of high cost in L2 right now is integration. This means that L2 application developers often need to integrate various basic services, such as Oracles, Filecoin, identity systems, and so on, all of which need to be deployed and managed separately.

What we are currently doing is making the connection between L2 and L1 more efficient. I also mentioned this topic this morning. For example:

The first step is to improve the communication efficiency between L1 and L2. Currently, it takes about a week to submit the state from L2 back to L1. We hope to reduce this to one hour initially and eventually reach 12 seconds. This will significantly reduce the data transfer latency.

The second step is for L1 to introduce an opcode called L1SLOAD, which means the EVM on L2 can directly read data from L1. For example, if each L2 needs to separately deploy an Oracle, it's actually a waste of resources. But if you can directly read Oracle information from L1, you can share data and reduce redundant deployment.

Another example is wallets. If we want to enable users to support Account Abstraction, such as allowing users to freely change private keys, switch signature algorithms, etc., the current practice requires sending transactions on each L2 to update settings every time, which is cumbersome. However, if we deploy this critical account information on L1, updating it once on L1 would allow every L2 to synchronize and read the status, solving this problem effortlessly.

This is also the concept of the "Keystore Wallet" I proposed — the core state of a user's wallet is stored on L1, and all L2s can read it directly, truly achieving a shared account structure.

So, as long as we can design a good interface between L1 and L2, we can make L2 lighter and developers don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Moreover, this approach can bring an additional benefit: we can promote the emergence of "L1-L2 hybrid apps." These apps are no longer exclusive to L1 or L2 but can simultaneously use data and services from both layers, achieving a more powerful functionality combination.

Xiao Feng: If L1 can handle more of the "dirty work, hard work, and tough work," it is indeed addressing a core issue that many people are currently criticizing. Because many people say L2 has created a lot of value, but this value has not been fed back to L1. L1 provides the infrastructure, but has not captured the value it deserves.

If L1 can provide more basic services, make L2 lighter and more user-friendly, then L2 should rightfully pay for these services and return some of the value to L1. This is not only technically reasonable but also a mechanism for "value feedback" in the economic model. Being able to do this is definitely good news for the entire Ethereum ecosystem.

You just mentioned the issue of decentralization. Indeed, some projects are now decentralizing for the sake of decentralization, posting a picture and claiming to be "Ethereum native" or "decentralized." However, when it comes to the application layer, the problem becomes much more complex.

For example, as you mentioned, Real World Assets (RWA), the idea of on-chain real-world assets is fundamentally impossible to be completely decentralized. Because the issuance of any RWA is almost universally considered a securities issuance in legal terms, it inevitably involves the issuer, the operator, the approval process, and regulatory agencies, all of which have centralized elements.

So I think we need to be a bit realistic. At the infrastructure level, Ethereum must maintain decentralization, openness, and permissionlessness. However, when it comes to the application layer, decentralization is not a panacea. The key is to find a balance between "trust minimization" and "efficiency maximization," rather than rigidly adhering to a certain form.

Discussion on the Applicability of "Decentralization" and "Centralization"

Xiao Feng: The issuance of a security-like asset will naturally involve the issuer, the operator, the approver, and the regulator, and there will definitely be some centralization or some degree of centralization elements in it. If we want to integrate blockchain with traditional finance and use Ethereum or other blockchain systems to build new financial infrastructure, we must face this reality.

The reason why finance is heavily regulated is because it has strong negative externalities. In the traditional financial sector, the so-called "rug pull" behavior is illegal because it reduces social welfare, creates risk and unfairness, and therefore requires regulation. This kind of negative externality, once introduced into the blockchain world, cannot be ignored either.

As the integration of blockchain with the real world deepens, I believe that implementing a "layered" system is reasonable. As the infrastructure, Ethereum L1 must adhere to decentralization. Just like the foundational protocols of the internet (such as the IP protocol) are open-source and permissionless, anyone can use the IP protocol to build a network without needing authorization from others. This openness is the foundation of the development of the internet.

Blockchain technology is the same way. As a foundational protocol, its core value lies in being open-source, permissionless, and decentralized. However, when it comes to the application layer, the situation is different. Internet applications are inherently centralized, and the Web3 world does not necessarily have to replicate this structure, but it also cannot ignore the validity of centralization in certain areas. What is your view on this "centralization vs decentralization" balance, especially at the application layer?

Vitalik: Yes, at the application layer, if we are dealing with real-world economic activities, relationships between people, etc., complete decentralization or total trustlessness is not achievable.

Why do I say this? Because many behaviors in the real world cannot be cryptographically proven. For example, if I want to sell you a mobile phone, and you first send me 0.5 ETH through Ethereum, then I ship the phone to you via DHL. You receive the phone and then confirm the transaction on the chain.

However, the issue is that in this process, the chain cannot verify whether I actually shipped the phone. Cryptographically, you cannot prove "I placed the phone in the package" or "DHL indeed took the phone."

Perhaps in the future, we can use some very advanced zero-knowledge proof (ZK) technologies, such as proving that I did hand over the phone to DHL, or DHL providing a verifiable on-chain logistics proof (using a method like ZK + TLS Notary)—but even then, you still have to trust DHL, you have to believe that I actually placed the phone inside. These kinds of problems are widespread in the real world and are areas that cryptography cannot fully cover.

Of course, the role of blockchain and cryptography is to minimize the need for this kind of "trust." Because when the trust barrier is high, only widely trusted large institutions can participate, and ordinary people are excluded, which is detrimental to fairness.

Through blockchain technology, what we can do is empower more people to participate. For example, Real World Assets (RWA) can be issued in token form, such as if I were to issue a Filecoin token totaling 1 million units. By only issuing 1 million on-chain, the system can publicly verify that no extra tokens were created. Additionally, through ZK technology, one can prove on-chain that they indeed have USD or HKD assets in a bank account equivalent to those 1 million tokens.

Another example is if a government were to issue digital identity IDs, the public might be concerned that they were covertly issuing "ghost IDs" to manipulate elections or social platforms. If these IDs were issued on-chain, with the total quantity visible, the public could confirm that the government only issued 1 million IDs, not 2 million. This mechanism can significantly reduce the trust cost placed on the government.

This trust-reduction mechanism, on the one hand, can improve efficiency, and on the other hand, it enhances fairness. A high trust threshold implies that small organizations or individuals find it difficult to participate, as only widely trusted large institutions can enter. However, once a verification mechanism can replace trust, more people have the opportunity, making the economy and society more open and fair.

Of course, in certain rare scenarios, such as validating math competition problems, true decentralization can indeed be achieved — for example, I design a smart contract where if you can submit a valid ZKP (Zero-Knowledge Proof) that satisfies a certain formula, I will reward you; otherwise, I won't. These scenarios are suitable for fully automated, verifiable, closed-loop logic.

But in 99% of real-world economic activities, this idealized fully decentralized mechanism is unachievable.

Xiao Feng: Yes, I completely agree. This is actually a point we must always remind ourselves of during the development of Web3 or blockchain applications — not everything can be solved with decentralization.

Certainly, for the parts that can be solved with decentralization, we should strive to use it as much as possible. Because it can reduce the cost of trust, enhance system fairness, efficiency, and transparency. But for scenarios that require connection to the physical world, behavior verification, such as mobile transactions, physical logistics, etc., on-chain mechanisms currently cannot fully cover.

The example you just mentioned is excellent; we still have to trust DHL to deliver the mobile phone and trust that they have indeed completed the delivery.

Therefore, we should not be obsessed with "everything from the foundational layer to the application layer must be 100% decentralized." Decentralization is not the goal; it is simply a means to achieve a more efficient, fairer, lower-cost economic system. We should leverage it, but also acknowledge its boundaries and limitations.

And now, Ethereum has entered the stage of a layered architecture, which I believe is a prerequisite for blockchain to move towards mass adoption.

How Can Developers from China and the U.S. Collaborate on Mass Adoption Initiatives?

Xiao Feng: Well, this new stage has arrived. As Vitalik just mentioned, many key technologies, including the continuous optimization of L2, are rapidly advancing. We are also gradually approaching the threshold for mass adoption of blockchain.

From the internet, AI to cryptocurrency, we can see an interesting phenomenon: among the top 15 global internet platforms, apart from the U.S., most are Chinese enterprises. The same goes for AI large models; apart from the U.S., China has also proven its research and development capabilities through companies like DeepSync, Huawei, Baidu, etc. However, countries like Japan, India, the EU, and the UK have not yet presented competitive large models. In other words, technological capabilities are not evenly distributed globally.

I believe a similar pattern will emerge in blockchain. Although developers are scattered worldwide, they are mainly concentrated in two language circles: the English-speaking circle (with the U.S. at its core) and the Chinese-speaking circle (with China at its core). The scale of English developers is indeed larger, but Chinese developers form another vast ecosystem.

So here's the question: if we really want to drive Ethereum into the mass adoption stage, how should Chinese developers, product managers, operators, and users participate? In fact, the Chinese have a strong capability in the application layer and have been winning through "execution" since the internet era, nurturing a large number of excellent product managers and platform operators.

For example, currently, more than half of the world's top ten digital asset trading platforms are founded or operated by Chinese. Why is that? Because the essence of Bitcoin on all trading platforms is the same, but customer experience and user service are areas where Chinese are obviously more adept.

So if we truly recognize that Ethereum is entering a stage of development focused on applications, how can we better leverage the advantages of Chinese-speaking developers? Not just developers but also operators and users. Chinese-speaking internet users alone exceed 1.4 billion, and when including Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, and overseas Chinese, it becomes a huge market. Do we have a strategy aimed at this group to incentivize them to develop applications on Ethereum and drive adoption?

Vitalik: Yes, this is a very crucial question.

First, I believe that driving the development of applications should not be "directly borne" by the Ethereum Foundation. We do not want everyone to still rely on the Foundation to drive ecosystem development five or ten years from now. Instead, we hope that every local community worldwide can grow, possess the ability to autonomously promote, self-organize, incubate, and implement various projects.

In recent years, we have noticed the development of developer communities in China, Asia, and even Africa. These communities have also established increasing communication with our foundation, especially in driving local developer organizations, project incubation, and talent development.

The reason we are unwilling to do everything can be attributed to two reasons:

The first reason is to avoid centralization. A healthy ecosystem cannot rely entirely on a central organization. We hope that Ethereum can self-evolve rather than having the foundation spearhead every application or project.

The second reason is limited resources. You may not believe it, but the amount of ETH currently held by the foundation is even less than what Justin Sun has (laughing emoji). Our budget is very limited, and the financial strength of many organizations in the community is actually stronger than ours.

Moreover, fundamentally, applications can be self-sustaining. If you create a valuable application, you can attract users, receive investment, and achieve profitability. Therefore, we are more focused on areas where "if the foundation does not do it, no one else will."

For example, core development of L1, ZK Email, Account Abstraction, ZK Wrapper, and other infrastructure components. These are high-threshold, low-commercial-return directions, so we are willing to provide more support.

However, for DApp, wallet, and other application development, they already have profitability and no longer need the foundation to drive them personally.

Therefore, our strategy is: to focus on supporting the growth of local communities. We hope to help more developers understand the core concepts of Ethereum, architectural components such as L1, L2, ZK, clients, etc., and guide them to explore specific application scenarios.

We cannot establish and manage communities worldwide, so we need to cooperate more with local organizations to help them establish their own developer ecosystems in their cultural and linguistic contexts.

We have already taken action in this regard, and compared to two years ago, communication and cooperation with Asian developers have become much smoother.

We also encourage everyone to proactively express their needs. If you encounter problems or have specific requirements during your project, our foundation is willing to provide support. We hope that in the next one or two years, every city will have a stronger developer community, nurturing a new generation of Ethereum's core builders.

This transformation has already begun, and we believe it can develop even better and broader.

Ethereum Should Establish an Office in Hong Kong, Restart Mainland Hackathons and Workshops

Xiao Feng: Yes, as you just mentioned, the Foundation focuses on doing things that application developers cannot accomplish independently, such as ZK (Zero Knowledge Proof), Layer 1 protocol research, and so on. This is correct. Because the Foundation should have a clear positioning. As for application developers, when they are building on Ethereum, they may indeed need the support and help of the Foundation and the Ethereum community to understand how to do better on Ethereum. This help may not necessarily be funding; it is more likely to be technical guidance, resource connection, or even exposure channels.

Therefore, today we are holding this conference at ETH Action, and we have also invited Ethereum community representatives from various Asian countries, hoping to have such an annual gathering of the Asian Ethereum community. Everyone can discuss how to promote Ethereum applications and technology in Asia. This is already a great platform in itself.

Based on this, I have two suggestions for the Ethereum Foundation:

The first suggestion is, I hope the Ethereum Foundation can establish an office in Hong Kong. This would be very helpful for the entire Asian Ethereum community, including application developers. This office is not only a symbolic presence but also a contact point that can provide practical technical advice, guidance resources, and exposure opportunities. Many developers may not necessarily need money from the Foundation, but they do need a place to seek support and connections, especially for some early-stage projects.

Actually, the purpose of our conference these past two days is to help these developers and projects increase their exposure, build connections, and find collaborative resources. This is the first suggestion, and as you saw just now, everyone has already shown their support with applause, haha.

The second suggestion is, I believe the Foundation, including yourself, should return to mainland China and restart face-to-face interactions with Chinese developers. You did a great job in the past. I remember you used to frequently come to Shanghai in 2017, 2018, and then it was interrupted due to the epidemic.

Now that the epidemic is over, it is a good time to resume this kind of interaction. For example, the Foundation can consider restarting hackathons and workshops in mainland China; you yourself can also personally meet with developers across the country. In October of this year, we will host the 11th Blockchain Global Summit in Shanghai. You have participated in the previous seven consecutive sessions, and we very much welcome you to participate again.

We at Wanxiang Blockchain are very willing to assist and drive this matter. We hope to restart Ethereum workshops and hackathons in multiple cities in the mainland. This format is not just an event but a substantive guidance for developers to help them master Ethereum's technology and build more practical applications. This is the two suggestions I want to propose to the Foundation and you today.

Vitalik: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Xiao. Thank you for your years of support for the Ethereum community, Foundation, and the entire blockchain ecosystem. I am really grateful.

Xiao Feng: Well, thank you everyone. Our conversation ends here today. I can assure you that neither of us rehearsed or communicated before this.

Vitalik: Hahaha, OK, thank you.

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