Dialogue with YGG and Star Atlas: The Crossroads of Blockchain and Gaming

Conversation YGG and Star Atlas: Crossroads of Blockchain and Gaming

原文来源： Republic China

We are at the crossroads of our times. Left or right, blockchain will profoundly affect our lives and even reshape every aspect of business. After DeFi, NFT and the meta-universe came into view, and Play 2 Earn became the latest paradigm innovation.

But what is P2E and what kind of world will NFT + Metaverse create? That's a real conversation to be had.

In this AMA, Republic's Asia Pacific partner Shin Shin will discuss the topic with Michael Wagner, CEO of Star Atlas, and Gabby Dizon, founder of YGG.

- How can economic systems be designed to ensure the sustainability of a meta-universe?

- How to prevent whales from forming monopolies and royalty in the new world?

- How does the metasverse create a fairer and largest labor market for mankind?

These interesting questions were discussed in depth in this AMA. In order to make it easier for you to understand, we recorded the AMA and prepared a carefully proofread Chinese manuscript for you to read.

Zhen:Thank you to the two current market leaders for joining us in AMA. Gabby and I had known each other for three years, and Micheal and I didn't know each other that long, but we really clicked.Republic's economists have also co-authored Star Atlas's latest economic systems white paper. Games have a lot of data about user behavior that can't be captured in the real world, which is important for creating better human collaboration policies.

I have been investing in cutting-edge technology in Silicon Valley since 2016. I have also invested in many game studios. I once worked for HTC Vive content Investment. I joined Republic as a mentor in 2018 and formally joined the team in 2020. I fully recognize Republic's vision and hope to empower ordinary people by lowering the investment threshold, which is consistent with YGG/Star Atlas's vision.

Republic focuses on equity and token crowdfunding and public offerings. We have millions of users, raised 500 million dollars and helped over 500 companies. And now we're exploring new things that are off the beaten track, too, with Republic Realm, Republic Crypto. Our team is also very passionate about NFT, and we are working on it.

Now please make a brief introduction of yourselves and the progress of the project.

Gabby:My name is Gabby and I'm the founder of YGG. YGG is a P2E (Play to Earn) union, in other words,We are DAO, a group of people who are very passionate about NFT games, buying and lending assets in different metascoes.Like Star Atlas, we've invested in over 11 games. In this way, we help more people make money from the game.

We now have over 50,000 participants in our guild, and about 5,000 of them are Axie Infinity players. They will borrow Axie to play games and make a good income from it. They are mostly in developing countries, such as Southeast Asia and Latin America, and their chances of earning from unions can be several times greater than local incomes.

In the Philippines, for example, gold farmers typically earn three to five times the local salary.We hope that more people can get a higher income opportunity in the meta-universe or virtual space. The union we've created is designed to lower the barriers to entry to NFT and help more people get into the game.

Michael:My name is Michael Wagner and I'm the CEO of Star Atlas. Star Atlas is a multiplayer online game based on the theme of space. Our games include space exploration, territorial disputes and game policy. It's all in the game of a grand worldview. A lot of Gabby's advice on the design of economic models in games was inspiring and resonating to me.

We're introducing a lot of mechanics that allow players like you in YYG to get rid of social constraints, such as systemic constraints and geographical constraints. That wasn't possible before because that was physical space, and it's not easy to move around in physical space and get citizenship or residency in other countries.

But in the virtual universe, all those barriers are destroyed, aren't they? They're broken. So we see gold everywhere in the virtual world. By the way, our game development standards are at the level of aaa titles, which we think will appeal to a large mainstream audience.

Although we put a lot of blockchain elements in the game, like NFTs, so that users can actually own the assets they create in the virtual world. This is very disruptive, and in traditional games is more likely to be rent-seeking and transaction-oriented. Users can only use their items when they log in, but when they quit the game, the time they spend and the money they create stay in the game. There is no way for users to capture this value. NFTs has changed everything, and now users really own their assets. If users decide not to play the game, they can still capture the wealth that they have spent their time and energy building.

In this game, we have two types of native assets. Atlas is a common currency that can be traded in the game and a vehicle for players to make payments among users. This includes land value taxes, purchasing consumable items, repairing ships, refueling ships, and more. Any scenario that costs money in this meta-universe is based on Atlas currency. Of course, the user will also receive some financial rewards in the game.

POLIS is the governing token of the meta-universe, and it can influence the future of the game to some extent.In and out of the game, we have a complete DAO model in a pyramid.Outside of the game, it controls the game's core models, including the inflation model and development requirements. It can even determine whether we, the studio, can continue to control the meta-universe, or open it up to a developer council.

Last but not least, and most importantly for us, this meta-universe has revolutionized Web 2.0 in every way. For example, e-commerce, the emergence of meta-universe games has created more innovation possibilities, giving more people the opportunity to participate in the business and even become entrepreneurs. Specifically, what Gabby and YGG are doing is encouraging more people to come into the world and use the assets in the game, which is exactly what we want to introduce in Star Atlas.

Zhen:I have noticed a phenomenon that in the field of traditional games, Tencent, netease and other giants have a monopoly. As a small game developer, it's hard to get past the big guys to get their hands on the distribution. But as you guys were talking, I realized that Michael was all about IP and game development, and Gabby was all about distribution and distribution. You don't need the resources of a big publisher.

This is actually a very interesting place to think about. Usually publishers can only do local releases, and as You said Michael, you've been an international team from day one. This is where cryptography is most interesting, with its borderless distribution and cross-border payment systems.

On the other hand, word of mouth is the best marketing. We can allow users to spontaneously recommend to their friends, which is great for the crypto space and good for the growth of the game. So what do you think is most exciting about the convergence of crypto and gaming?

Gabby:This is a really good question that I'd like to discuss in depth.Blockchain and the metasurverse actually undoes publishers to some extent.Publishers have a huge say in the game industry. They have IP, they even have development studios and third party developers. The asset flow goes through them, and they have users.

So, in fact, it's often impossible for a game developer to own an IP or acquire an audience. What I like most about blockchain games is that they deconstruct these things so that there is no single entity that owns most of the resources.There are assets in the game, but the assets in the game are owned by the user. This also means that game developers don't have to pay a lot of money to a platform like Facebook or Google just to get more users.

On the other hand, as a union, for example, we build relationships directly with gamers. We acquired and retained those users. We buy assets directly from the developers of our games and have a direct relationship with them. No one can ask another person to do anything. There's a lot of gaming going on here, between communities, developers, players and unions. I think it's an ongoing communication, not a traditional power relationship.

This is where governance comes in. At some point, a small group of core gamers and unions will dominate and choose the path that best suits the game, but it's never up to any one entity alone to decide. This makes for an interesting dynamic game that ultimately gives the community enough control.

Michael:Let me make my point. From the standpoint of an IP holder, or the developer of a game, I think the most revolutionary thing is that we can actually deliver value to the stakeholders. Publishers are very transaction-oriented and are more focused on how much money they can make from the whole thing.

By the way, we have a deep cooperation with Republic Crypto, who provided a lot of help on the economic model we released on 17th as a consultant. We put a lot of effort into delivering value, but we're happy that we're allowing our players to capture that value. We have our own unique revenue stream that doesn't come from paid games, and we're breaking the paradigm.

We're capitalizing on cryptocurrency as a vehicle for capitalization, and we're capitalizing on the activity of this meta-universe.When real economies are being created in these virtual worlds, it makes perfect sense for teams like ours to take a small slice of it. Most of this value is still given to players, contributors, and even thought leaders. For example, when we work with communities like YGG to introduce referral mechanisms, recruit more gamers to spend money or build an ecosystem, we always win.

It's really a philosophical question of how much you want out of the middle.For us, we're actually very aggressive, and we want all the benefits to flow back into the ecology. Because if everyone contributes, if everyone builds, it builds a better product for everyone.With a deeper understanding, we want stakeholders to be able to introduce proposals and vote on them, which ultimately affects everyone, including themselves. They will act in the best interest, but it's also in the best interest of everyone,Because our governance structure creates a natural balance.

Zhen:Now that we're talking about the economy. If we think of each game as a parallel universe, then different IPS are different parallel universes. In the future, people will be able to stay at home and play games or immerse themselves in virtual worlds, thanks to cross-border payments and cross-border value transfers.

In fact, in these parallel universes, we're building a whole new economy, and how do you make sense of that economy? What kind of world do you want to build, and how do you plan to get there? How do you balance power? Many whales will bring real world assets into the game, how do you plan to balance them?

Michael:I have a lot of ideas here. Let me start with the earliest structure, where we have an external DAO that determines the development and evolution of the metasomes.We're building products that don't repeat the life cycle of traditional games, and in the future we're going to be completely decentralized. It should be shared by the people of the world.It's not just us, more people are going to be involved in building more features, more assets. Of course, as a company, we will continue to be actively involved in the development of games.

But giving the game to the community means that the entire product life cycle can be infinitely long.If we understand this correctly, the game or the universe could last for thousands of years. I know it's a big narrative, but that's the way it is, and it's something that people can improve on and make it endure. That's why I think daOs are so important.

The internal governance is divided into four parts.In the game of Star Atlas, there are three factions, namely humans, aliens and robots, and each faction has its own DAO. People can choose who governs this faction, which is effectively a DAO of regional autonomy. It's like a local settlement, or a planet in a galaxy, where people can directly influence the rules, like taxes.

And at the bottom of that governance, we have what we call trade unions.Even at the union level, users can run a treasure trove of unions managed by the DAO. Everyone who is in the union can decide for themselves how the union should be run.

For example, if you have a union that is dominant in a certain area. And the CEO of the union is managing the day-to-day work, so he can say I need 10 people to mine the new resource so we can forge the new NFT. Or we need people to explore certain areas, and we need interplanetary transport ships. At the same time, if they cannot stop the military from defending their borders, they too will be attacked.

In this case, many decisions need to be made by DAO voting. For example, if we need to spend money to strengthen our patrols and security services, this could be the game's NPCS or even other players that the union pays for.

I have always believed that the metasomes will create the largest labor market for mankind. Because in the meta-universe, everyone will not be limited by geography. If a person doesn't get paid what he or she deserves while serving a union, there are more than 1,000 to choose from. This would create a fair circulation system.

I have a lot more to say about this, but I think I've said enough, so I'll stop there for today.

Gabby:We call ourselves the union's union, so we're not really a union. We're actually a lot of different communities under the same flag. We want to be "present" in different games, participating in decisions, holding and lending assets. We even had multiple YGG unions in one game. What really binds us together is our shared vision and collective morality,That is, enabling more people to participate in the meta-universe. You will see one or more YGG sites in each meta-universe.

Michael:I have one last thing to add. I mention this because Zhen just mentioned the entry of Orca and the possibility of buying a lot of assets. One of the key concepts we introduced in Star Atlas is called the "land value tax," which is a recurring property tax, whether you use the assets or not. This is designed to discourage Orca from buying large amounts of assets and not putting them to use, which is likely to happen.

We want real business to happen in the game. We also want users to actually use these assets.They're holding on to these assets, probably because of their potential appreciation. Either that appreciation will be eaten up by taxes, or they can choose to hire 100 people to manage the land.Because the only way to make real money is to put the land to use.In this game, the only way you can get an apple is to plant an asset in the ground.

Again, I want to emphasize that a lot of new jobs are going to be created in the virtual world. Our communities are worried that we are not creating new slums where people are unable to buy land because they lack capital, so they have to work for someone else.

But like I said,In the metasverse, we create a highly competitive environment. People are free to work as they choose, so more capital will benefit everyone.It's like gold everywhere in the emerging world.

Let me take El Salvador as an example. There's a reason El Salvador adopted Bitcoin as legal tender, and they hope it will attract more people to el Salvador. When people come to El Salvador, they bring capital and innovation with them. And that would give the country a better economic cycle.

The same is true when we go back to the meta-universe, when opportunities abound, capital flows in, and everyone gains, right? More opportunities for all.

Zhen:That's exactly what Gabby and I were thinking. Gabby, would you like to comment more? I know there's been a lot of change in Southeast Asia. Do you want to talk a little bit about YGG, how you grow, how you run the union. And I'm personally very interested in how did you come up with a union? Does it have anything to do with where you grew up or where you live?

Gabby:First of all, we have over 50,000 community users. Most are in Southeast Asia and Latin America, including the Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, India and Venezuela, Brazil and Colombia in South America. Of course, we also have some members in the United States and Europe. There are fewer members in America and Europe, which are more investors and lenders in the NFT. We have members all over the world.

In fact, I wanted to start this union two years ago. At the time, users had to buy assets to get into the game, until Axie's community invented bonuses and loans. The most elegant thing about this whole model is that it's self-generated by the community. And when that happens, more people with no assets can play NFT games. When I saw what was happening in the Axie community, I realized that what I wanted was possible.

So I talked to the folks at Delphi Capital, who designed the economic model for Axie. So when I told them I wanted to start a guild at Axie Infinity, they understood right away. This is where we collected our seed rounds.

We plan to allow digital assets to move freely around the world.Starting with Axie Infinity, how do we distribute a billion Axie to every corner of the world? How do we keep people in order?How do we get people to want to use their skills in the metasverse?You could be a gamer, a real estate agent of virtual time, or even a painter.We want to make sure that everyone with talent and skills is able to use their value in the meta-universe.

Michael:This is a very positive thing. While we're making it possible for people to actually own the game, we're also providing financial income to more people, no matter where they live. So even if capital comes from outside, it comes in for financial gain. It's also something that benefits more people, especially those who wouldn't otherwise be able to reach the threshold. This is a very positive dynamic. It's like Airbnb/Uber.

Zhen:But Airbnb hosts and express drivers don't necessarily love what they do, do they?

Gabby:If they had a stake in the company, they might love what they do a little more. Whether it's Airbnb for rentals or Uber for car services, it might be fairer for them if they own shares in their companies, as we do in cryptocurrencies.

Zhen:As I've noticed with a lot of Layer 1 corporate staking, people will staking but not to maintain network security, but to make money. There will be arguments that playing a game in order to make money makes it less fun. What do you think about that?

Michael:Tell me why you can't have your cake and eat it? For example, I love building a store that makes me money at the same time. But anyway, I think the most important thing for video games is entertainment. I'm using Twitch as an example. I think these guys are just having fun and finding a way to be commercial.I don't think making money and being happy are two things you can't have at the same time.

Gabby:I also see a lot of discussion on this topic. From my own personal experience,Pure P2E won't last long,People love Axie Infinity not just for the money, but also for the fun of it. If you really look in the community, people are actually having a good time.

Michel: I think there's a less clear line here.You can be an occasional gamer, still benefit from it, and enjoy it. You can think of it as a lifestyle, or a career. You can also choose to work harder and put in more hours.But at the heart of all this is a dynamic balance.

Zhen:Both of you are working on empowering users and developers, so what do you hope to achieve? Or rather, what was the point of the whole thing?

Gabby:For us, we want to be the infrastructure of the meta-universe. IWe want to make it possible for all of us in the real world to express ourselves and earn an income through our participation in the meta-universe.We don't want them to be slaves to the new world, as long as they have the Internet, the wallet, the basic equipment, our community can take care of them, provide assets, provide community support, provide training. We want to be a bridge into the meta-universe for people from all over the world.

Michael:We don't want to be the masters of the meta-universe, we want to do a great experiment. We introduced three core things, social interaction, policy governance and economic models. We now have a large community that allows us to carefully test these models and build a better system.

We can help people psychologically and cognitively build a better way to interact with people than in the real world, and it doesn't have to be entirely in the virtual world. I believe that as time goes on, the line between virtual world and real world will become more blurred. We just happen to have an opportunity to evolve the way people interact with each other, and hopefully we can find a more balanced and fair system that involves everyone.

Zhen:What do you think about the sustainability of games? Because normal games have short cycles, whether they are chain games or traditional games.

Michael:For us, the most important part is the economic modeling part below the surface.One of the most important is that when value is constantly being taken out of a system without being injected into it, it is an unsustainable model.At some point, such economic models will break down. So the most important thing for us is to make it easier to build and innovate in the metasverse, and we need to provide tools that work. Empowering users to create value for themselves means creating new business models and interaction models, and bringing in more mainstream users and traditional businesses that can interact with users and communities in games.

Imagine that users could visit NIKE insoles in the metasverse, try them on with 3D VR, make frictionless purchases with cryptocurrency, and then have the shoes delivered to their home. By the way, you may also get an NFT if you buy it this week, which you can wear in your avatar.

Instead of extracting value from it, we need to create an economy that can connect and sustain itself. That's where we spend the most time and effort.

Zhen:Anything else you want to add?

Gabby:We received a lot of responses from the Chinese community, most of whom were concerned about what we were doing as a DAO. The meta-universe has a very strong appeal to the Chinese community.We are discussing how to introduce it into China. I think a more Localized Chinese community, such as a Chinese YGG sub-DAO, will be very worthy of our exploration.

Welcome to join the official BlockBeats community:

Telegram Subscription Group: https://t.me/theblockbeats

Telegram Discussion Group: https://t.me/BlockBeats_App

Official Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/BlockBeatsAsia