This week, Santi and Rob discuss market volatility, MicroStrategy’s financial health, and Ethereum’s valuation. They also dive into current macro conditions, recent Tether FUD, and prediction markets. Enjoy!
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Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Rob: https://x.com/HadickM
Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel
Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
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Zcash is encrypted Bitcoin. Your digital bill of rights securing your freedom for the 21st century. Buy, store and spend ZEC privately using Zashi Wallet download today: https://electriccoin.co/zashi/
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Katana is a DeFi-first chain built for deep liquidity and high yield. No empty emissions, just real yield and sequencer fees routed back to DeFi users.
Pre-deposit now: Earn high APRs with Turtle Club [https://app.turtle.club/campaigns/katana] or spin the wheel with Katana Krates [https://app.katana.network/krates]
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This Empire episode is brought to you by VanEck.
Learn more about the VanEck Onchain Economy ETF (NODE): http://vaneck.com/EmpireNODE
An investment in the Fund involves a substantial risk and is not suitable for all investors. It is possible to lose your entire principal investment. The Fund may invest nearly all of its net assets in either Digital Transformation Companies and/or Digital Asset Instruments. The Fund does not invest in digital assets or commodities directly.
Digital asset instruments may be subject to risks associated with investing in digital asset exchange-traded products (“ETPs”), which include the historical extreme volatility of the digital asset and cryptocurrency market, as well as less regulation and thus fewer investor protections, as these ETPs are not investment companies registered under the Investment Company Act of 1940 (“1940 Act”) or commodity pools for the purposes of
the Commodity Exchange Act (“CEA”).
Investing involves substantial risk and high volatility, including possible loss of principal. Visit vaneck.com to read and consider the prospectus, containing the investment objective, risks, and fees of the fund, carefully before investing.
Van Eck Securities Corporation, Distributor, a wholly owned subsidiary of Van Eck Associates Corporation.
--
GEODNET is the world’s largest RTK network, delivering real-time, centimeter-level precision for drones, robots, farmers, and first responders. Recognized by the U.S. Congress, this blockchain-powered network supports mission-critical applications across a wide range of industries.
Discover how GEODNET is changing the world: [https://geodnet.com]
--
Uniswap’s Trading API offers plug-and-play access to deep onchain and off-chain liquidity, delivering enterprise-grade crypto trading without the complexity - from one of the most trusted teams in DeFi.
Click to get started with seamless, scalable access to Uniswap’s powerful onchain trading infrastructure. https://hub.uniswap.org/?utm_source=blockworks&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=ww_web_bw_awa_trading-api_20251117_podcast_clicks
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[Timestamps]
(00:00) Intro
(04:40) The L1 Valuation Debate
(16:28) Ads (Zcash, Katana)
(17:44) The Market's Lack of Liquidity
(30:07) Ads (Zcash, Katana)
(31:24) Thoughts on Saylor & MicroStrategy
(46:25) Ads (VanEck, Geodnet,Uniswap)
(48:47) Recent Tether FUD
(57:47 ) Thoughts on Prediction Markets
(01:09:18) Kraken Acquires xStocks
(01:12:04) Favorite Christmas Movies
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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
This week, CIO of Bitwise Matt Hougan joins the show to discuss fading the power of the four-year cycle, the accelerating wave of institutional adoption, and whether Strategy selling its Bitcoin is a real risk. Matt also weighs in on the Santi-Haseeb L1 debate, balancing token value with investment, and what he thinks drives the next phase of growth. Enjoy!
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Follow Matt: https://x.com/Matt_Hougan
CIO Memo: https://bit.ly/4pK4gmC
Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel
Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod
—
Zcash is encrypted Bitcoin. Your digital bill of rights securing your freedom for the 21st century. Buy, store and spend ZEC privately using Zashi Wallet download today: https://electriccoin.co/zashi/
—
Katana is a DeFi-first chain built for deep liquidity and high yield. No empty emissions, just real yield and sequencer fees routed back to DeFi users.
Pre-deposit now: Earn high APRs with Turtle Club [https://app.turtle.club/campaigns/katana] or spin the wheel with Katana Krates https://app.katana.network/krates
—
This Empire episode is brought to you by VanEck.
Learn more about the VanEck Onchain Economy ETF (NODE): http://vaneck.com/EmpireNODE
An investment in the Fund involves substantial risk and is not suitable for all investors. You may lose your entire principal investment. The Fund may invest nearly all of its net assets in Digital Transformation Companies and/or Digital Asset Instruments but does not invest in digital assets or commodities directly.
Digital Asset Instruments may involve risks tied to investing in digital asset exchange-traded products (“ETPs”), including the historically extreme volatility of digital asset and cryptocurrency markets and reduced regulation and investor protections, as these ETPs are not registered investment companies under the Investment Company Act of 1940 (“1940 Act”) or commodity pools under the Commodity Exchange Act (“CEA”).
Investing involves substantial risk and high volatility, including possible loss of principal. Visit vaneck.com to review the prospectus, including the Fund’s investment objective, risks, and fees, before investing.
Van Eck Securities Corporation, Distributor, a wholly owned subsidiary of Van Eck Associates Corporation.
—
GEODNET is the world’s largest RTK network, delivering real-time, centimeter-level precision for drones, robots, farmers, and first responders. Recognized by the U.S. Congress, this blockchain-powered network supports mission-critical applications across a wide range of industries.
Discover how GEODNET is changing the world: [https://geodnet.com]
—
Uniswap’s Trading API offers plug-and-play access to deep onchain and off-chain liquidity, delivering enterprise-grade crypto trading without the complexity - from one of the most trusted teams in DeFi.
Click to get started with seamless, scalable access to Uniswap’s powerful onchain trading infrastructure.
https://bit.ly/4pt0Fd0
—
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
03:28 2026 vs The Four Year Cycle
05:06 Bitcoin Covered Call Strategy
07:44 The Case Against The 4-Year Cycle
11:14 Ads (Zcash, Katana)
12:31 Will Strategy Sell Its Bitcoin?
16:36 Inside The Institutional Mind
24:24 How Advisors Think About Crypto
27:40 The Best Stories In Crypto
30:23 Ads (Zcash, Katana)
31:39 Risk-First Investing
33:01 L1 Debate: Haseeb vs Santi
36:19 Balancing Token Value & Investment
40:16 Ads (VanEck, Uniswap)
41:58 Zcash & The Privacy Narrative
44:29 The Future Of ICOs
46:55 The Token-Equity Convergence
48:19 Final Thoughts
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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
