a16z Exclusive Interview with Encryption Artists Pak and Signe Pierce: Where is Encryption Art Going?

Original title: "Crypto for Creators: From Art Galleries to "Tokenized" Collectibles"

Original author: Pak, Signe Pierce, Zoran Basich

Original source: a16z

Compilation: 0x13, Rhythm BlockBeats

Rhythm Note: The content of this article is the 612th podcast of a16z, artists Pak, Signe Pierce and Zoran Basich of a16z Discussions were held on NFT, tokenization of physical assets, creator economic model, etc. The full text is as follows.

This episode features interviews with two artists who are exploring crypto-powered auction sites and marketplaces, which is part of our ongoing Part of the Maker Economy series. In the larger context, emerging models of “tokenization” of physical assets, including NFTs, are creating new ways for collectors and investors to buy, sell, and trade digital art. More broadly, these innovations open the door to the tokenization of any physical asset or collectible that can be captured and held digitally, and open up many new business models for creators.

NFT trading platforms have opened up new revenue streams for creators as long as digital works are resold on these platforms , the creator will automatically get a share of these secondary sales. This is all transparent and recorded on the blockchain, which is a big shift in the creator economy.

Our first guest is a big name in crypto art and one of the most mysterious. Pak is an artist and designer who founded archilect, an AI image sharing site. Pak wanted to hide his real identity by separating their personal identities from those they were working on the network, so we conducted this interview via email and used text-to-speech software to convert Pak's answers into audio. Compared to his identity, Pak wants people to pay attention to his work.

We know a lot about Pak's works, Pak sold more than 60 digital pieces on the encryption art platform SuperRare this year Works of art with prices in excess of $350,000. And that's just one of several platforms where Pak's work is sold.

In this interview, Pak talks about NFTs with Zoran Basich of a16z. These "non-fungible tokens" are unique assets that are not fungible. Paper dollars are homogeneous, and the value of each dollar bill is exactly the same as other dollars of the same denomination. But for example works of art, or any collectible, can be non-fungible, their value varies according to the market for that particular asset. With encryption, these assets carry digital ownership and can be easily traded.

Let’s first discuss the overall concept of digital art.

Why would someone pay a lot of money for something that looks easily copied?

Pak:Look, this is a tough question. Because newcomers often assume that it can be copied, but in fact, NFT collectors do not get a data file, what they get is a unique, signed token that cannot be copied or owned by others. Therefore, I think that NFT can "right-click-save-copy", which is the same as going to the Louvre to take a photo of the Mona Lisa and claiming to own the Mona Lisa, or taking a photo of an airplane ticket to generate that you can use it to fly very similar. NFT is not about visible objects, but about the permissions and usage rights of a thing.

It is only a matter of time before it becomes more widely accepted. Every emerging artistic medium falls into this struggle before being accepted. Having this struggle is not a bad thing, but a good thing. When the debate is over, the resolution of this conflict will make crypto art more valuable. From my personal point of view, this is not people's conflicts and doubts about "is this art?", but more about "is this unique enough?" And this will be understood sooner or later.

What was the mainstream business model of artists in the past, and how will encryption technology change this situation?

Pak:I never put myself Classified as an artist, although part of what I do, design, definitely touches on art. Therefore, I think it might be a good idea to change the term "crypto artist" to "crypto creator."

From a design perspective, practitioners can choose to work full-time for a studio, freelance, or have own studio.  

For encryption art, it is relatively close to the second type, that is, the freelancer mode. However, the details Can not be ignored. A designer's client "needs" your work, but an art collector "want" your work. Sometimes it feels better to be "wanted" than to be "needed".  

What was your first exposure to encryption and how did your interest form?

Pak: I knew about it before it became popular. I have been interested in the concept of value for as long as I can remember, and I was immediately intrigued by the idea of how value could be transformed into this new exchangeable form.

And NFT is new to me. The first time I saw NFTs was when CryptoKitties was just established, and CryptoKitties officially contacted me to create an Archillect kitty.

Nowadays, NFT is more than just some fun gadgets. I believe in the technology it defends, and as such, I'm happy to make waves in this technologically revolutionary, evolutionary offshoot.

How does NFT attract creators to become encrypted creators?

Pak: This is similar to a car becoming electric car. "Crypto creators" does not seem to me to be a term that defines a particular group of creators. It's just the term for this now new, soon-to-be-canonical digital transactional item. In other words, when any creator can easily become a crypto creator, why not?

Most of the activity around crypto is financial, trading, lending, and investing in cryptocurrencies. What features of encryption technology might appeal to artists, designers, and other creators?

Pak: For any kind of creation For the latter, the creation and destruction of value is always fascinating.

Do you have any advice for creators interested in exploring crypto as a new sales model?

Pak: Let it go!

You have been working at the intersection of technology and art for some time. Aside from their possible economic advantages for artists, does the idea of crypto and blockchain, or decentralized technology in general, have some deeper cultural or symbolic meaning in your view?

Pak:Anything can be brought There is symbolism, which depends on the recipient rather than the creator. I value innovation, I value creating value, and I have been working hard to break people's inherent cognition. Of course, the decentralization of things implies a new technological culture in the future, many new norms and standards, and many branches with unknown directions, which is the reason for existence. Almost like it was just before the internet went mainstream.

Let’s talk about artist income. Will NFT be like the traditional art business model, making it difficult for creators to make money, or do you think the distribution of wealth may become more equitable with encryption technology?

Pak: Art auction is a It is inappropriate to value NFT based on this in a completely different field. Of course, NFT-backed art will have its own audience, and I expect to see a similar dynamic to the traditional art world in the way things are evaluated.

On the other hand, NFT can be used for many other things, and that's its power. Anything that can be owned digitally can be backed with an NFT. It has many uses in media, entertainment, real estate, gaming or any type of property or collectible. It's a technique that will slowly become mainstream in art, but it's not limited to it. Therefore, I don't think that only a few creators will make money. It will be the basis of many new business models in the future.  

Our next guest is Signe Pierce , a visual, digital and performance artist whose work has been exhibited in prestigious galleries in Paris, Los Angeles and New York. She is currently showcasing her art on Foundation, a creator marketplace. On the site, token prices associated with limited-edition works of art are priced like you would see on a stock market, pricing is real-time, dynamic, and fluctuates based on demand from buyers, who may be investors, collector or fan. (Signe also recently opened NFT-based single-page auctions.) Signe discusses why she went from working only with galleries to experimenting with the crypto market, how this move has affected her work and her business, and how crypto has changed her relationship with fans. way of contact. She also offers advice for creators interested in entering the crypto world.

First of all, she talked about the popularity of social media a few years ago, which made her see the idea of a new monetization model for creators .

Signe Pierce: From 2014 to 2017, Tumblr kind of caught on. And my photo has been forwarded hundreds of thousands of times.  

I've been wondering, why is there no valuation around this liking? Maybe how is this possible? How can we turn likes into money? How can I turn the attention economy into an actual form of monetization?

This is the big question that really got me thinking, yes, I can actually really understand why this block On-chain technology and tokenized artwork have the potential to significantly disrupt the art world while also aligning with my vision of a more prosperous world where artists and people enjoy art.

How did you start working with curators?  

Signe Pierce:Me and Curator Lindsay Howard got in touch. We discussed our vision in detail, hoping to find some new ways of doing things that would allow artists to have more stake in their work. I think part of it was having a curator that I really trusted inviting me, and the fact that I could feel their finger on the pulse of the times, all of which was what made me want to work with them.  

What are your works of art now? Tell us about what that's like and what works are being presented there right now.

Signe Pierce:I did three A specific run, these three pieces are from what I call the "Longhorn Lily" series. I have provided two 100-version prints, and a 10-version video. I wanted to create a running piece to provide this cool crypto training wheel for people who might be interested in it, but too nervous to try it. (Note: The foundation realizes the transaction of limited edition works through convertible ERC20 tokens and its NFT-based single work auction.)

Let's see what happens, you know? And at the end of the day, you can experiment with encryption. It's been very exciting to watch the trading side of it, when they trade in their tokens, they get exchanges. For me personally, it's just kind of new territory.

Interestingly, fans, collectors, they can buy your art at list price. When you're ready to create these works of art, they're going to get a physical copy, right?

Signe Pierce:Exactly.

And, while they are waiting for you to complete the artwork, complete this order, they can also trade tokens associated with the artwork . So, the price of that artwork goes up and down in value, or it's dynamic, right? It can go up or down.

Signe Pierce:Exactly.

So it gets to what you said about people being able to trade it. And this is what is really interesting, because now you are not talking about this static price, but a dynamic price, which allows more people to participate in the collection from a pure transaction or investment aspect.

Signe Pierce: I know not all Every artist will love this, and not all artists will feel that this is how their work should be. But I think it's an interesting way of thinking about our work, like stocks in a way. I'm interested to see how this approach develops in the field, because it's new and it needs to be pioneered in order for it to become commonplace.

So from a buyer's point of view or from a collector's point of view, they can wait for the price to go up, and then trade and profit from it, Rather than end up owning your physical artwork, right?

Signe Pierce:Yes, no wrong. I think it's also a cool way for people to support artists. If you do not decide to exchange tokens, you may not necessarily get a physical version. But you are still supporting me and the artist by participating in the transaction. I think it's a cool way to get people into crypto and support the arts.

One thing we should mention, you mentioned, is that every time someone trades these NFTs, the artist receives a cut of it .

Signe Pierce:Exactly. Plus with fewer editions, the more editions are sold, the higher the price. It's also very exciting.

How do you think about pricing? How do you decide what the initial price is? And how many editions are there?

Signe Pierce: I spend a lot Time to think about this question. I'm going to have my work traded through the gallery system and the art market, and I'm going to purposefully keep them low key, you know, rare. They come fully framed and carefully crafted. These works are all high-quality digital C prints. It's just that the versions are larger, so the price is considered to match, and there is not so much scarcity attached to them.

However, once again, I found that I can still work in the art market, but I can also make more People can access these works. I think my work is valuable. I take it very seriously and I hope it gets the due attention it deserves. I hope it will be appreciated over time. I think the art market has seized on this opportunity.

But I don't want it to be completely banned for the rest of the world because it goes against my art is for the people General spirit of service. So for me, it's my personal approach. Again, not everyone will agree, but this is my way so we can have both worlds at the same time. I'm not giving up on the art market or the art world, but I'm really interested in trying new things and getting more people involved and becoming a collector.

So, that website where you sell your work, it's like a stock market, right? It will show an increase or decrease in price. I took a look this morning, and your works are all up by more than 100%. Congratulations !

Signe Pierce:Yes, we well-done.

How often do you check prices? what was that like? This is a real-time view of people's feedback on your work, right?

Signe Pierce:Of course, this is very Exciting. It feels modern. I'll be very honest, I'm not a financier, you know? I am an artist. But I'm a modern artist, and I'm really interested in modernity and the future, but also how it works, and understanding it to think better. So when I see the value of those pieces in real time, that's exciting, and I'm used to the culture of Tumblr where you can see your numbers go up, it's blood pumping. You directly see someone like or retweet. But for me, nothing is attached to it except a small burst of dopamine. So that actually creates a little bit of capital for it to at least make it more interesting and more rewarding.

Is this an experiment where you might make a little money? Is it a decent income? How much of an income stream does this represent for you?

Signe Pierce: At the end of the day At times, I am making money through my work, which is exciting, and there will be additional profits. I get a profit from it, and it's another avenue for me to get income, and I can create my art and spread it out to people. For me, these are wins. Although the profit is not as high as in the art market, it is just a work, you know? And I have many works, which will bring income and profits, and my income will increase a lot.

So, for a period of time, the work is listed at a very high price, and then waiting for the appreciation and valuation of the work value, doesn't make much sense to me. Then if it doubles in price on the secondary market, I can't see it unless I write it into the contract.  

How do you feel about digital art versus physical art? Because I think in this case, now you're making physical work, you're sending it to people. There are copying costs involved, which presumably cut into your profits, and digital works are much easier to copy.

Signe Pierce: Exactly.

But at the same time, the development of digital art is difficult because, like, how do you stop it from being copied? But with crypto, there’s this extra thing of a token where you know its provenance, you know it’s a unique piece of art that can’t really be owned in the same way. So how do you think about these things as part of the business model?

Signe Pierce:This is a very Important issues. I think people are and have been struggling to understand why they pay for a video or pay for a GIF. If it is not a tangible work of art, how can it have value? This requires the thinking and development of many artists and technical experts. For me, as you said, the origin of the blockchain technology, which guarantees the authenticity of the work, is the key to making this possible.

Once we have a collective consciousness, I think it will be a game changer for how art continues to be created, traded and collected revolution.

I also want to talk about fan engagement because it's very interesting. Right now your artwork is being transformed and people can participate economically, but tokens have the potential to enable other types of engagement as well. People can become "super fans", or have access to something in your life or work that non-token holders may not have access to. So, have you considered the evolution of fan engagement as it relates to crypto?

Signe Pierce:I think this is totally Great potential. Accessibility, access points will be an important part of fan engagement. There are various ways to solve this problem.

I just wanted to do it in a way that I thought was cool. To be honest, the most important thing I want to design is that I want it to work the way I really want it to work. I'm curious to know how we can engage fans, when I put myself in the shoes of an artist I like, what interest would I have in paying for their work? It's actually the artist's decision to configure the different value levels.

So I'm very interested in your point of view, artists who are interested in this, those who try to break this stereotype, this surrounding Artists in the traditional commercial system of art, what should they know when exploring encryption technology? How much do they need to know about encryption before they start?

Signe Pierce:I think someone It always helps to walk around holding your hand. If no one can teach you directly, then you can try to teach yourself. I mean, I really had to do it for myself. I only scratch the surface of how it all works because, well, I'm just an artist. Therefore, learning advanced blockchain technology does not have to be an everyday thing. But, since I'm an artist interested in future models and methods, it's important for me to sit down and focus on these ideas so I can keep them in my head. That's part of it.

But on the other hand, I think it’s this fearless entrepreneurial spirit, what have I got to lose? If you're not currently making a lot of money and don't have much to run your art on, then you have nothing to lose, other than throw yourself into something new and see if they last. I think it's a really important energy for people, generally, it's like, "Let's go.", "Let's try. Let's try something new." If there is enough Most people have this innovative spirit, and that's when things start to explode, ignite, and change.

Excellent, Signe. Thank you very much for coming. Very happy to chat with you.

Signe Pierce:Thank you, I will play Very happy. Thank you for giving me this opportunity.

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